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 Census Cover up?
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Greg
Punatic

1816 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  16:06:03  Show Profile  Visit Greg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well I've stewed on this for two weeks and can't stand it any longer.

In talking with a friend who was a census enumerator, I was told of at least two events that should have been reported. Another worker confirmed his story. They both told me they were ordered not to talk about it. That's why I've waited for it to come out elsewhere.

A census taker in lower Puna was shot at. They were initially instructed to ignore posted "No Trespass" signs and go unto private property. In the same area, a census worker who was following these instruction was actually arrested for tresspassing. To make matters worse, the census bureau left this person in jail and didn't help them get out.

My question is why is this being witheld from us? It seems a shooting and arrest involving government workers would be public knowledge.

Dave Smith
Da Kine

263 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  16:11:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greg, do you know if a police report was filed on the shooting? If so, it should be listed on the police blotter, although that is usually available only to the press.

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JerryCarr
Punatic

2395 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  16:31:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the location is within the boundaries of a Neighborhood Watch organization, the chairperson of the NW is routinely given a listing of police reports for the area. I know because I get such a report monthly for HPP. Inquiring at the police information office may or may not get a response. I might be wrong, but I think the Freedom of Information Act applies as long as releasing the information would not compromise an on-going investigation. FIA demands can take time, persistence, and knowledge of the process.

Also, I might add that getting someone arrested for trespassing in this jurisiction is not the easiest thing to do. I have had police officers tell me that most trespassing complaints end up being a waste of time.

If there is some sort of cover-up, there are a number of speculative possible reasons as to why. Maybe they don't want to give other idiots any ideas. Maybe they don't want the other census workers to be timid or refuse to beat the bushes. If these incidents really happened, something tells me wacky weed was being grown on the property, but of course that's even more speculation.
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csgray
Punatic

3338 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2010 :  16:42:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It could have as easily been someone with PTSD or a survivalist as a dope grower.

Carol
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TheodoreJay
Da Kine

227 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  09:38:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kind of depends on the real facts....maybe the Census worker was over zealous and thought they had authority to ignore the No Trespassing Sign.
Legally I'm thinking you need to have a warrant or some sort of immenent emergency to go onto posted land. Kind of doesn't make sense cause the typical reward to the Census worker is only a couple of bucks per household and not worth getting people shot at or riled up. This is a good argument folks for just mailing those Census forms back. In most cases if you just report the number of people living there that is typically enough for them to leave you alone. Remember the Census is mandated by our Constitution and lots of funding to Hawaii comes from that information.
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Rob Tucker
Kama'aina

9926 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  09:45:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I heard on NPR today that this census is the shortest set of questions (10) since 1790 (7). It certainly doesn't seem very intrusive... and it does matter. Please send yours in.
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Greg
Punatic

1816 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  13:42:32  Show Profile  Visit Greg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
According to the workers I talked to, They were instructed to go past posted signs. Of course the bosses have now changed this policy and are probably denying they ever said it.

I trust my sources completely and don't see it as something that may have happened. Someone got shot at, someone got arrested, and the census bosses have told the workers not to talk about it.

Where's the police report?
Why the gag?
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Rob Tucker
Kama'aina

9926 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  14:16:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I talked to a couple census people who had told me of this too.
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mdd7000
Punatic

USA
1154 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  14:31:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This will probably cause a stir amongst the paranoid among us.

Signs being in place or not, I wouldn't be opposed to a government employee, while performing their official duties, to enter onto "private property". In the case of the Census - it isn't like these people are doing illegal searches and seizures. I recall that in my former state of residence that the property tax officials had the authority to enter property without warrants in order to assess it.
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janeadams
Da Kine

383 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  14:56:53  Show Profile  Visit janeadams's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It would be interesting to hear from folks who have not gotten their census forms. Neighbors here (Kaho'e Homesteads) have had theirs delivered, either to houses or gate, but we've gotten nothing, and we're more transparent than most. Yes, No trespassing sign on gate, but not locked and nothing has been attached or received at our PO box. Calling into the Census sites without the little number on the form (never received) got a "call us back after April 12th", despite them wanting stuff in by April 1. Go figure.

I intensely dislike the thought of census folks being shot at, and I would hope that is an isolated event, and that the shooter is prosecuted and the Census org is shamed by its non-response to their employees if that is true. I actually WANT to send in our info!

Not a promising beginning here for a full and accurate count.

Jane

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n/a
deleted

4834 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  16:38:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greg, I'm confused about what is upsetting you the most? Is this topic about the fact they went in and ignored postings, or are you blown away that someone was shot at, or are you most upset that the incident(s) weren't publicized?

This topic seems to be going all three directions.
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Greg
Punatic

1816 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  19:04:49  Show Profile  Visit Greg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It seems the bosses, out of ignorance, put their workers in danger. I'm not at all surprised that incidents like these happened, and wouldn't be nearly as curious about them if they had been reported and acted upon.

So for me, it's the "cover up" that bothers me the most.

Why would they keep this information out of the public record if not to protect someone's incompetance, and/or negligence?
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n/a
deleted

4834 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  23:02:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Greg. You are probably right, although I can think of one reason, and that's to downplay the inference that it's dangerous to go knocking on doors in the land of Aloha. i.e. it could also be about Hawai'i's image.
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808blogger
Da Kine

485 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2010 :  07:32:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
seems my earlier speculation was correct
http://punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10314&SearchTerms=census,trespassin
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JerryCarr
Punatic

2395 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2010 :  18:43:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At Saturday's meeting of the HPP Neighborhood Watch, our Community Policing Officer informed us that the story about a trespassing arrest was indeed true. It seems a census worker was looking into the windows of a residence and refused to leave when the resident asked him. The census worker became belligerent, and the resident, who happened to be a police officer, called for some other cops to come remove the person. The worker was still there when the other cops arrived and proceeded to argue with them to the effect that he was government worker and could be there if he pleased. Census person got arrested and taken to the cell block. If a census worker was shot at, no police report was made, according to our CPO.
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mdd7000
Punatic

USA
1154 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2010 :  19:41:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The question is... Did the police officer send in his form, as required by law? (sarcasm)
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