Print Page | Close Window

HPP Grading And Paving

Printed from: Punatalk
Topic URL: http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4717
Printed on: 07/28/2014

Topic:


Topic author: macuu222
Subject: HPP Grading And Paving
Posted on: 01/02/2008 08:35:22
Message:

I am a HPP resident and would like to know the current status of when they will start paving the roads in this subdivision that the 12 million dollars was appropriated for? I recall something about as early as September but that has already passed. Anybody have any up to date info?

Also...I live on the 5th street between Makuu and the end of the subdivision and our road is horrible. Going down on Makuu and turning right on 5th there are huge potholes right at the entrance that will undoubtedly break someones axle soon. I don't recall seeing a grader on our road in the past year (Im retired and home most of the time). Has anyone else in HPP with road problems seen a grader on their street in a while?

It seems that posting about our subdivisions concerns on this forum gets more feedback than HPP's own discussion board. I will undoubtedly have to go to our Hui office with the problems since even their contact email is outdated. But I did want to see if anyone else knew anything first.

And finally... I understand that there has been some debate as to which roads will be paved by the appropriated money since not all of the roads can be paved with only 12 million. 10th, 16th, and 22nd have been mentioned as well as the lower half of all the 3 main roads. Has this been finalized? Or is there still time to make changes?

Replies:


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/02/2008 09:39:06
Message:

When I called the HPPOA office a couple of weeks ago, the lady who answered the phone told me that the Road Committee had not yet finalized the paving plan. I don't know whether that means there will be additional public input or not. One would expect that the committee's plan would at the very least have to be approved by the full board. I am NOT an expert on such matters, but it would seem that the mandate provided by the election to pave the roads was given under the assumption they would ALL be paved. Since that is apparently no longer the case, the mandate would be philosophically and morally questionable. Whether it is legally questionable is another matter altogether. Does anybody still have a copy of or remember the exact wording of the election ballot?

Previous paving projects in HPP have been poorly handled, and I abstained on the vote for that reason. I did not vote "no" because I thought maybe they had learned a lesson and also because a lot of us thought it might be a good thing for HPP to do something significant for itself instead of complaining about what the county has refused to do. FWIW, the vote passed by a very wide margin.

Meanwhile, road maintenance does seem to be suffering, and all the recent rain is not helping.

Cheers,
Jerry

Mea


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/02/2008 17:39:55
Message:

BOYCOTT HPP ROAD FEES!

5th street has a SERIOUS bathtub/pot hole at Paradise, south side. I was down there 4 times today back and forth from a friend's house who lives in the middle of that block.
18th between Paradise and Kaloli really sucks. My road, most roads are the worst I've seen in years. Yet the HPPOA/Road crew will LIE to your face.

Susan Mayhew has lied to my face, Clyde the road crew "mgr." now I guess lied to me when I was in his office and he change the schedule right in front of me and didn't follow what he said.

The court needs to over see that 12 million or we're really gonna get the shaft. Talk about corrupt. I can't count the board members who've come and gone/quit. Most the time I go past the office the equipment is sitting there. I've seen two guys working on some dumb weed eater motor while the road equipment was just sitting.

Those people are so inept it makes most of us who have lived here some time sick. I was told that the roads with the most complaints get the most work. So call, call, and call some more.

I've complained as long as I've been here and it's ridiculous. 12 million? maybe 12 streets will get paved and most likely the ones that the board members live on.

The HPPOA was in court (receivership) just a 1/2 dozen years ago. They still haven't kept up the side roads. Messed up the contract on Paradise, a second contractor had to "finish" what the first one started.

A pot hole on Paradise, bent a tie rod on my SL500 Benz, and the office more or less just said "oh well". They're "mushy rude" when you call, IF you get through. Appear polite but is it? When it's a lie?

Unfortunately, looking at Beachboy's, Who's here and who's not post, which has faded away shows only 30? puna residents. maybe 20 are in HPP. So a Boycott by those that read here would do little. But if a thousand or two holding road fees until we get some REAL specific and TRUTHFUL answers might make a difference.

I'm not paying again until I see a grader and material on my street and I HOPE they take me to court over it. Because then I'll sopena all their books. They've added all kinds of stuff to the HPPOA Office.

It's a farce. I asked Susan if she knew of the Punaweb and her answer was along the lines of "F.... those guys and that site". No wonder the HPP blog is dead.

The last road manager told me I won't see my road paved in my lifetime and I'm only in my 50's. If they'll lie to your face, you can't believe a word that comes out of it.


Reply author: Kelena
Replied on: 01/02/2008 18:19:15
Message:

Serving on an association board is one of the most thankless tasks in the world...you are required to become expert on so many things, very quickly. It is easy for a Board to wade in beyond its expertise. And almost everything you do costs money.

The type of people attracted to running an association are rarely the kind you actually want running it, for so many reasons.

My experience with Susan has been brief and cordial and I found her to be very helpful, and fairly astute.

The HPP website does appear to be fairly moribund.

The decision to pave the roads was probably ill-advised. Maintaining the roads once they are paved will be difficult, and expensive. And paving "some" of the roads is going to make most of the people pretty angry, because it is impossible to make choices regarding which roads to pave that please everyone.

As Jerry points out, it does appear that there has been a change of circumstances and, at the very least, the matter should be reconsidered under the new circumstances, as the premise underlying the vote has been proven to be faulty.

We should probably be pushing for a new referendum that presents the circumstances as they are, and then presents the alternatives.

I came to this late in the day, but the problem may be that we already have funding entanglements that may propel us forward.

I do recommend not burning any bridges with the decisionmakers (to the extent there are decisions still to be made).

And do not assume that those of us who own in HPP, but are not in HPP, could care less and are not paying attention.

We care and we are paying attention.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/02/2008 19:11:24
Message:

Nothing personal Glen, but owning here and living here is as different as day and night. However nicely you put it, it isn't the same as driving down these freakin roads everyday.

How many stupid board meeting have you sat through over the years?

How many of your neighbors have you listened to complain about their roads TO THE BOARD IN PERSON?

However cordial Susan may have been to you, if she lies to one I doubt if she has any qualms about tell anyone, anything they want to hear to have them go away.

Still you, (if you lived here) would have to drive up and down these crappy roads. Promises, promises, promises.

Not to mention all the construction traffic, which does the most damage. These road weren't made for semi trucks and heavy traffic.
I see contractors and their worker's trucks w/trailers wippin down these red cinder roads throwing fine dust into the air, your house, your lungs, in all your electronics. They should charge a surcharge for trucks over a certain GVW limit.

My cleaning lady is amazed how much dirtier houses are in HPP than other places she cleans with paved roads.

In HA you can't go wippin up and down those roads or you'll loose it. They're worse but get less traffic and I believe their road fee aren't mandatory.

Live it, then you'll understand. I'm telling you not just my experience, but everyone I know in the park has the same complaint about HPP roads and the ability of the HPPOA to keep them maintained.
I foresee the paving as a nightmare anyway.

The court ordered the HPPOA to deal with the roads, ONLY. The million bucks a year they collect in fees only half goes to the roads, 137 miles of them in HPP, you do the math. Evidentially they didn't do it very well. Have you vote for one thing then give you something else.
It's already jumped 2 mil from the first promise. Originally is was 10 million to pave ALL the roads. So who telling the TRUTH


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/02/2008 20:19:45
Message:

Only paving a relative few of the cross-HPP roads creates consequences beyond just the fact that we are not all getting what was promised. Paving only some of the roads will funnel all the cross-subdivision traffic onto just a few roads, turning them into potential speedways for construction and service traffic. Imagine living on a road which gets paved and suddenly becomes a 60+mph highway with speeding water trucks, contractors moving from one building site to another, building supply trucks, and all manner of other delivery and local traffic getting from one side to the other. Any paved roads near the highway will get used to bypass traffic tie-ups, as one of our roads already has experienced. If they had paved all of the roads this sort of traffic would at least have been dispersed, albeit at much higher speeds than we now see. (Somebody please suggest that local law enforcement will take care of this. I haven't had a really good laugh all week.)

I plan to attend the next board meeting to see what they are cooking up and hopefully to ask some pointed questions about all this.

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: macuu222
Replied on: 01/02/2008 20:32:46
Message:

I received a reply from someone in the HPPOA office today about my comment I posted here at the top of this discussion.

"Aloha,
Thanks david for your inquiry. The paving committee has told us they want to start paving in Spring. The reason it wasn't done in December was because there was a conflict of interest. That is now being taken care of and they are trying to shoot for paving this spring. The roads that I know of that are going to be paved is 1st Makuu - Paradise, 7th, 16th, 22nd (emergency access) Denny Higgins is our new paving
Chair. If you'd like any information he would be the guy to talk to
mailto:dennyhiggins@hawaiiantel.net

As for the grading of the road i am going to forward this message to the road supervisor. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

- HPPOA STAFF"


Reply author: Seeb
Replied on: 01/02/2008 20:36:05
Message:

Pohaku if you dont pay they can take your house ( look at the court desion ).
And in the last draft of the loan deal i saw they defered this power to the bank.

I think the people up at the office are trying ,but this is a convoluted situation any place else in the country this would be a function of town goverment( when HPP is built out it would qualify as a city in most states)
Instead we have this half *ssed feudal serfdom. it's amazing the whole thing dosnt just implode.


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/02/2008 21:32:59
Message:

Seeb is right about the Association's right to foreclose. At the last full membership meeting it was announced that they are currently foreclosing on properties in arrears of $2,000 or more, and they are trying to lower that to $1,000. They mentioned that several dozen properties were already in legal process with many more to follow. And the whole thing has imploded at least once before, with the Association being placed in legal receivership. That was before my time here, but I think it was in the 90's. Some other forum member probably knows the details on that fiasco.


Reply author: Greg
Replied on: 01/03/2008 09:07:11
Message:

I don't live in HPP, but have served on the board of my own neighborhood. I've noticed that there are a lot more people who "know" what to do, than those who will actually try and "do" anything.

I think some of the "experts" should serve on the board, giving them the opportunity to show off their own ineptitude.

As far as the potholed roads off Maku'u, especially in the dead end direction; since they're used mainly by the residents (no through traffic)Why don't you guys bring in a load of cinder and do it yourself? I know you've already payed your fee, but I can think of a few benefits.

1. Physical activity.
2. Bonding with your neighbors.
3. Soothing your car's abused suspension system. and:
4. Helping out the board members instead of only criticizing them.

All your roads aren't going to be paved at the same time, and everyone probably considers themself a priorty. Can't you see what a difficult position this puts the board of directors in?

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.


Reply author: Damon
Replied on: 01/03/2008 09:29:32
Message:

quote:
......Why don't you guys bring in a load of cinder and do it yourself? .....



The cinder "patches" that I have seen used, don't seem to last more then a few days.

After reading the minutes from the August 8, 2007 meeting, it seems that the whole "Paving Committee" seems to be in a bit of disarray.

........The Paving Committee (PC) is responsible for completing the RFP. Bob said that the PC is not qualified. Dennis Higgins agreed with Bob and said that the PC is currently waiting for decisions from the board and Ted Hong before moving forward.............

.......Bob Rainie moved to form a new Paving Committee. Dale Watson seconded. The motion passed unanimously. JoAnne asked if there was a motion to appoint Dennis Higgins as Chair of the PC. Bob Rainie said that wasn’t necessary, she could do it. JoAnne Backman appointed Dennis Higgins as the Chairman of the new Paving Committee. The members are: Frank Annin, Bob Rainie, Dale Watson....

I'm beginning to slowly learn why I dislike politics so much.

A blog was devoted to this here that gives more info on the situation.

-----------------
Coming home soon!


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/03/2008 11:03:38
Message:

Greg, I agree that serving on community boards is often thankless and subject to frequently shrill and unfair second guessing. I, for one, am not completely on the sidelines, though. I have attended meetings where I participated in discussion on this and other issues. I don't have any problem with paving those roads determined to be public safety and transportation priorities first. I am no expert, but I do know that it is physically impossible to pave all of them at one fell swoop. It would have to be done in phases.

What seems so objectionable to many of us is the fact that we are being given no assurance that all, or even most of, the roads will EVER be paved. This whole project was authorized on a premise that no longer seems valid. Would 85% of the membership have voted for the plan as it is now unfolding? Maybe, but I doubt it. Is there any HPP resident on this forum who did NOT think they meant to do the whole thing?

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: macuu222
Replied on: 01/03/2008 11:19:44
Message:

HPP Owner Here....The way the ballot was worded...It appeared to me that they meant "all roads". But what I understand now is that this 10-or 12 million loan is just the first phase. HPPOA was approved for up to 21 million.


Reply author: allensylves
Replied on: 01/03/2008 13:15:14
Message:

I am not a resident, but I have been an HPP owner for 18 years now. I voted against the paving because I figured, based on the past 18 years, that things would turn out about like they seem to be going.

Allen
Baton Rouge, LA & HPP


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/03/2008 14:45:50
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Greg

I don't live in HPP, but have served on the board of my own neighborhood. I've noticed that there are a lot more people who "know" what to do, than those who will actually try and "do" anything.

I think some of the "experts" should serve on the board, giving them the opportunity to show off their own ineptitude.

As far as the potholed roads off Maku'u, especially in the dead end direction; since they're used mainly by the residents (no through traffic)Why don't you guys bring in a load of cinder and do it yourself? I know you've already payed your fee, but I can think of a few benefits.

1. Physical activity.
2. Bonding with your neighbors.
3. Soothing your car's abused suspension system. and:
4. Helping out the board members instead of only criticizing them.

All your roads aren't going to be paved at the same time, and everyone probably considers them self a priority. Can't you see what a difficult position this puts the board of directors in?

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.



"""""""""""""
And I ain't slammin you personally but............

if you don't live here then talking, out the side of you neck doesn't help either.

When YOU, have filled pot holes, and driven YOUR equipment, (like I and friends who have/had backhoes or bobcats) without reimbursement for fuel or maintenance, and picked up trash(and I don't mean paper on the side of the road but towed junk cars, hauled appliances, boats and dead animals)with YOUR truck, THEN you can talk. IMHO

Just owning a lot you don't even work on, from a far, is like me owning a piece of Greenland and arguing on line for a BBQ in whatever property I owned in absentia.

Just cause you own property doesn't mean much. Quite frankly I think non-resident owners, shouldn't even get a vote. An owner doesn't make you a resident neither does paying property tax or road fees.

When I moved into the park in 99, the HPPOA was in or just coming out of court. I think I need to write that Judge a letter. But I'm sick of local politics.

When I used to attend the board meeting they said the loan was "TO PAVE ALL THE ROADS." PERIOD!

What part of all is 1st Makuu, 7th, 16th, and 22nd? A few roads????
I don't know what you call it but my moma would call that a LIE.

As far as them taking my land, HA!, the Bank owns none of it and my attorney is way mo betta than the one they got. If this got into court this all the BS would be aired. They're foreclosing on delinquent off island owners who are like 30 years in arrears. I don't think they're ready to take on any local fight on the issue. They will surely loose.

It's like a merry-go-round only not so merry. They've been going in circles for so long it would be funny if it we're so pathetic. They need to dissolve the HPPOA and force the county to take over. Then maybe we could get some Federal help when the county throws up it's hands in disgust. Or incorporate HPP Township and collect Taxes locally instead of giving them to the county for nothing in return. It ain't rocket science. The big joke is when the EPA comes in 20 years from now and forces them to tear up all the roads to put sewers in.

If they only pave a few "emergency routes?" 1st, 7th, 16th and 22nd they'll become speedways like 28th, but they're aiming for the full PMAR "bedroom" community for Hilo. Forget about the, this supposed to being Agricultural Lots. Can you say Peal City? H4? H5?


Reply author: Rob Tucker
Replied on: 01/03/2008 15:09:36
Message:

Gee Pohaku,

To me what you're saying to Greg is:

I'm not slamming you personally but.... unless you're me you no matter!

My suggestion is to try to allow people their opinions without slammin 'em. It's not necessary to slam people you don't agree with. Just disagree, state your position and leave it be. Believe it or not Greg is entitled to his point of view too.

Punaweb moderator


Reply author: mac nut
Replied on: 01/03/2008 17:41:39
Message:

I am a home owner on 15th street and I too am wondering what is up with the paving project that was approved. Lets face facts, the HPPOA needs to be more forthcoming with some kind of plan. I too thought that the 12 million was to pave ALL the roads. I would not have voted for it otherwise. Why would I vote to have someonelses road paved and not mine? To only pave some roads is not right. If they don't have enough money then at least pave several hundred feet off of each main road on to the cross roads. This would be an equal benefit to all streets that are not paved now. These apron areas are where there are some huge potholes and you can lose your steering as you come off the paved thru roads. The board needs to not lie to us, but give us the facts and if we cant pave all roads then collect more money from the people that live on the road being paved!


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/03/2008 17:57:15
Message:

A lot of people are upset about the road situation in HPP, and most of them do not post on Punaweb. Venting here is helpful to some and not always meant as a personal attack. (Lord knows I have used Punaweb to vent a few times. LOL.)

I had a cordial and helpful exchange of emails today with Dennis Higgins, the current chairman of the HPP Paving Committee. Dennis is aware that some property owners feel that the ballot proposition wording meant ALL the roads were to be paved. From attendance at meetings, I already thought that he had nothing to do with its wording or promotion, and he confirmed that. I think he is serving because he has expertise in this area and is willing to help the community sort things out, not because he is politically invested in the process leading up to all this. (Please note that the last sentence consists of MY words and opinions, not his, based on hearing him speak at meetings and the emails he sent me.)

Dennis wisely suggests that those of us who feel strongly about this issue should attend the Board meeting at the Activity Center at 6pm on January 16th. There is also a General Membership meeting in February for which I have not yet found a date. I will post it as soon as I know. I plan to be at both these meetings and ask questions about where all this is going. I hope many of my HPP neighbors will also be there. I may be naive, but I still think we can influence what happens.

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: mei
Replied on: 01/03/2008 19:21:49
Message:

I am a resident of paradise park and have lived her for more than 19 years. I also frequent that unusually large pothole on the corner of 5th and paradise- that could easily cause serious damage to your car if your traveling at a speed more than 3 miles per hour! I also cringe when I send the road maintenance fee in annually considering the number of repairs that have been necessary (wheel alignments, bent radials, etc). I don't foresee the roads being paved in the near future but, the grating should be done more regularly without the necessity for irate citizens to have indicate the need for the roads to be done at least every few months, especially after a long stint of rain. If anyone is listening, FIX 5th, 18th, and keep up with the grating. Its ridiculous to pay for a service that does not get done. And another thing, rather than paving all of the side roads has anyone thought of the need for there to be a shoulder for pedestrians to enjoy their walks or jogs? Its like you have to risk your life to try to take a stroll.Whats up with that?


Reply author: Menehune
Replied on: 01/03/2008 19:31:20
Message:

Aloha kakou! (may there be friendship or love between us, greetings)

Once again, a heated issue has brought forth confrontation.

If you "quote:" a post and then directly address the contents of the post - especially using the pronoun YOU - it becomes a personal exchange and the wording takes on a different tone and meaning in that context.

Generalized statements within a reply to ignore accountability do not ring true.

Because someone is of a different opinion, place of residence, religion, color of skin, culture, nationality, owns a porsche - whatever - does not mean their view is wrong, doesn't count, irrelevant - whatever - just different.

Having said all this I hope I can live by it as well.


'O wau no me ka mahalo, (I am, [yours] respectfully))


Reply author: Menehune
Replied on: 01/03/2008 19:33:12
Message:

OOPS!


Reply author: Tolleys
Replied on: 01/03/2008 19:40:37
Message:

Pahoku,

Quote:
"Just cause you own property doesn't mean much. Quite frankly I think non-resident owners, shouldn't even get a vote. An owner doesn't make you a resident neither does paying property tax or road fees."



First off this is a very emotional subject and hits us all in pocket. As you know land owners without a house on it pay much more Hawaii County tax! This is a benifit to the county...


We were on the mainland for 4 years before moving here in July 2007. Before we moved, we paid attention to what was going on in HPP and voted as if we lived here. Many land owners (presnetly not on island) plan to move to HPP and care about planning, safety and yes roads. Don't generalize.


I thought HPP was a residential sub-division, not a business zone. Why do you have your "backhoes or bobcats" traveling on the roads? They probably do more damage then the basic family car...


Susan


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/03/2008 20:00:43
Message:

Tolleys,
specifically.

Our equipment was on the road doing the JOB the we paid HPPOA to do but they don't! You must have missed that point. We are doing their job. And leave it better than it was. Lucky if you got someone on your block to do that for you.

And the being here is about filling in the holes not just talking about it.

How many people will have to die on Paradise dr. before they finish it? Lights? Shoulders? joggers on the road? narrow as they are yes IT IS AN EMOTIONAL ISSUE. How many people do you know that have died in the park on the road?


Reply author: mei
Replied on: 01/03/2008 20:11:25
Message:

I can see that this road issue is controversial and perhaps has gone beyond the facts and breached into the world of personal. In my opinion, whether or not a person lives in the park does make a difference because they are experiencing the roads and paying for car repair rather than hearing about it. And a question to the last few blogs- is this a personal issue or is it a fact that we all need to join together to manifest change? Actions do speak louder than words.


Reply author: Aki
Replied on: 01/03/2008 20:12:42
Message:

It is a good idea to attend the next Board meeting in January and the general meeting in February. I attended the Board meeting in December and talked to Dennis briefly after the meeting. I believe the Paving Committee has a good intent to do the most it can with the funds available. Apparently there were six different companies that came to a on-site pre-bid meeting to look at the paving of roads in HPP. This is good news as hopefully there will be a very competitive process on the price for the paving (perhaps the slow down in the economy has actually helped HPP get a better price).

In terms of what roads will be paved in what order, there is no "right" or "wrong" answer to this, only a range of options. From my very brief discussion with Dennis he is acutely aware that it is a difficult issue on deciding what to pave in what order. All we can ask of the Paving Committee members (who all volunteers trying to do the best they can) is that they outline the thinking for setting priorities (including paying attention to the roads costing the most to maintain) and then make a decision.

My wife and I own a lot in HPP but do not live here yet. We are paying close attention to the actions of the Board in how they are handling issues, and yes there are things that in our opinion should be done differently, but we view HPP Board members as good people doing a community service to the best of their abilities. As are the staff members that want to serve HPP residents.

Let's have a little "aloha" spirit in respect of the HPP road paving issue and not make assumptions about ill intent or conspiracies. I see neither from following the paving issue over the last three years or so. Only volunteers trying to do the best they can, seeking the best advice on technical, financial and legal issues where appropriate.

I hope 2008 will see many miles of road paved in HPP and an increase to the good will and community support of HPP residents and non resident owners. HPP is a beautiful place, let's make it a beautiful community where we show respect for each other and provide support to the volunteers and staff that try to make this a better place.

Mahalo, Aki


Reply author: Greg
Replied on: 01/03/2008 20:28:26
Message:


What I'm curious about is how a road fee moratorium will help pave HPP's roads. I can't see the Association suddenly being able to pave more roads because five, twenty five, or even a hundred residents refuse to pay. I can't see them caving to a few dissenters either.

I mentioned before that I've served on boards of directors. It's been my experience that non profit boards are comprised pretty much of volunteers. They're not in it for the money. Is the HPP board that much different?

I'm serious, and curious; Are HPP elections hotly contested, or is the final tally a comformation of those who volunteer?

I feel this is important because if it's the latter, and a person feels more qualified to serve, they should do so rather than complain.

Don't boards have to work within the framework of the by-laws, which require general election (living here or not) to change?

Good luck with your roads.

Mahalo for allowing me to express my opinion. I welcome yours on any subject.



Reply author: mei
Replied on: 01/03/2008 20:56:03
Message:

Living in Paradise Park for many years the problem that I see is that nothing changes. I lived on 14th street for 11 years and they were never grated more than 1 time per year. Where is the money going? We are talking about paving yet, we can't even do the grating appropriately. The paving idea is obviously going to pose many problems because for one thing the three main paved roads (Makuu, Paradise, Kaloli) Have not been repaired properly ever.Less than two years ago, there was no visible center line, the potholes were fixed poorly and have since deteriorated. Going to a community association board meeting does not change the fact that roads are poorly maintained nor does it mean that the moneys will be appropriated to fix the problem. As far as the commentaries about people using their own materials and equipment to repair the roads that should be maintained by the road crew- How could one oppose a generous contribution to their fellow residents? I personally am surprised and extremely grateful when a resident does fill in a few potholes on the road. I do however, find it atrocious that it is even necessary for residents and taxpayers to perform this duty.In my opinion, all the planning for paving etc.. would be time better spent fixing what we have now- horrible roads.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/04/2008 20:42:56
Message:

I apologize if I upset anyone with my ranting but when decided on HPP over other subdivisions it was my understanding that this was an Agricultural zoned subdivision not a residential one.

It unfortunately is turning into that and the adds fuel to my rant/internal rage. I was also told by the then Manager of HPPOA that the roads were all kept up at least a couple times a year.

Over the years, through the different managers and boards and road crews, those two major factors have been terribly misrepresented, to put it nicely.

So when I read things that in reality bear no effect on the fact that we still aren't getting what we're paying for, I get a little peeved.
Add to it I know it's not going to change anytime soon just multiplies the disdain in anything related to the farce sold to us.

With that being said I'm gonna try not to think about the continuing state of affairs. I'll pay my road fees as I always have but I think I'll wait until the next time they grade my road. Pay after the work is done, if it is, not before. Some years the grader didn't even drop the blade on several roads.

"One", of the dirty little secrets of HPP that I'm sure aren't disclosed in sales of homes and lots here as shown by statements on this forum.


Reply author: canhle
Replied on: 01/04/2008 23:32:49
Message:

What I don't understand is that Leilani collect less road fee but got all of their road paved.

canhle


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/05/2008 00:15:27
Message:

Leilani doesn't have 137 miles of roads


Reply author: mikewj
Replied on: 01/05/2008 06:14:34
Message:

With regard to HPP in general: Over the years it has been a grave concern to me that there is no equable representation of all owners when it comes to decision making. Under the Bylaws of the Association, it is necessary to attend the meeting in person in order to have a voice in the disbursement of monies. When a motion is put to the membership, it can be passed by a vote of 60% OF THOSE MEMBERS PRESENT. Only in very rare circumstances are motions put to the total membership by written ballot. This means that thousand of dollars can be appropriated and spent by a 60% vote of the Board and a few attendees. I would be surprised if average attendance at a Board meeting exceeded 20 people including the Board.
Also, Board meetings are called for times such as 4:30pm on a workday. How many working people can get to this kind of a meeting?

As things are now, most Association members are NOT represented.

I personally do not feel comfortable being obligated to part of a TWELVE MILLION DOLLAR debt incurred without my consent. I certainly do not want this debt increased, given the current method of procedure.

With the large number of empty lots and absentee owners, the chance of recovering money from these owners in the event of an emergency situation is very low. Foreclosure and forced sale of properties would only serve to depress the value of all remaining properties.

I advocate a return to strict fiscal responsibility. "Neither a lender nor a borrower be". If there is a perceived need, let the Board go to the TOTAL membership with a proposal, then collect cash, then take care of the need. Otherwise, as others have said, I bought Ag lots, and I'm perfectly happy to spend my dollars to drive whatever kind of vehicle is necessary to access my property.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/05/2008 06:51:42
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by mikewj

With regard to HPP in general: Over the years it has been a grave concern to me that there is no equable representation of all owners when it comes to decision making. Under the Bylaws of the Association, it is necessary to attend the meeting in person in order to have a voice in the disbursement of monies. When a motion is put to the membership, it can be passed by a vote of 60% OF THOSE MEMBERS PRESENT. Only in very rare circumstances are motions put to the total membership by written ballot. This means that thousand of dollars can be appropriated and spent by a 60% vote of the Board and a few attendees. I would be surprised if average attendance at a Board meeting exceeded 20 people including the Board.
Also, Board meetings are called for times such as 4:30pm on a workday. How many working people can get to this kind of a meeting?

As things are now, most Association members are NOT represented.

I personally do not feel comfortable being obligated to part of a TWELVE MILLION DOLLAR debt incurred without my consent. I certainly do not want this debt increased, given the current method of procedure.

With the large number of empty lots and absentee owners, the chance of recovering money from these owners in the event of an emergency situation is very low. Foreclosure and forced sale of properties would only serve to depress the value of all remaining properties.

I advocate a return to strict fiscal responsibility. "Neither a lender nor a borrower be". If there is a perceived need, let the Board go to the TOTAL membership with a proposal, then collect cash, then take care of the need. Otherwise, as others have said, I bought Ag lots, and I'm perfectly happy to spend my dollars to drive whatever kind of vehicle is necessary to access my property.




THAT YOU SO VERY WELL PUT


Reply author: Lee DeJongh
Replied on: 01/05/2008 07:19:43
Message:

Interesting discussion and clear that people are passionate. We own a lot on 4th but don't live there. I do think my opinion should count however, because of the principle of "no taxation without representation". Not being there I am not too concerned about which roads get improved or how but I voted for the proposition because I thought that improvements were needed and it seemed to me a small price to pay. On a separate but related note, it seems to me obvious that with a population greater than 12000, HPP is not rural nor agricultural but well on its way to becoming a city. And, in time, might well rival Hilo. That said I appreciate the long time effort Rob and others make to looking toward the future, which is going to come, whether we like it or not.


Reply author: Beachboy
Replied on: 01/05/2008 09:30:59
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by canhle

What I don't understand is that Leilani collect less road fee but got all of their road paved.

canhle


BINGO!!!Canhle, that is the 12 million dollar question nobody wants to hear! At least not in the HPP Hui Office!



Handle every situation like a dog,If you can't eat it or hump it,piss on it and walk away...


Reply author: Beachboy
Replied on: 01/05/2008 09:38:16
Message:

okay besides no roads the infrastructure just plan old sucks big time! Even a rural as Puna is, and it ain't that rural folks! Why can't we get our roads paved, why can't we all have cable,...and by the way....I want my MTV!!!!! Terrible joke that was...sorry

APATHY is a real 'Mother ****er',but it raises it's ugly head at every corner of Puna. Puna has plenty of people who want to do something about it too. It's just to bad that the majority of these voices have only legs painted on them..especially out of state landowners!

Handle every situation like a dog,If you can't eat it or hump it,piss on it and walk away...


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/05/2008 10:05:24
Message:

My resolution for 2008 is to attend and participate in ALL the meetings. I made a start in 2007, but did not make it to all of them. The very least I accomplish by going is entitlement to comment and/or complain with some substance behind me. The history of this whole thing is so shot through with mistakes and misconceptions, that there is no single factor, committee, or person responsible. I have done my share of venting here on Punaweb, but playing the blame game at this point is probably not going to be productive. Coming up with a plan that will work is a lot harder than griping about what didn't.

If all of us here on Punaweb who are concerned show up at the meetings and voice our concerns, I am pretty sure that it will have some impact. I can't think of an easy answer for those who do not yet live here and feel disenfranchised. Doing a massive ballot a la the paving referendum is not practical all the time. Knowing what the board members stand for and voting in those elections might at least produce representatives more in tune with the membership. (These elections have been very low-key, and sometimes nobody runs for one or more of the positions. Apathy sucks. Attending meetings will give us some idea about whether or not we need to re-elect our reps.) Board ballots are mailed to all property owners as far as I know. FWIW, non-resident property owners are not allowed to vote in township or city elections in any jurisdiction where I have ever lived, yet they have to pay their taxes like everybody else. If I were a non-resident, I would make it my business to find out who my rep is and what their ideas are.

Glen calls me the "Railroad Optimist," but I am not always little Jerry sunshine. Fixing HPP's road mess is intimidating, and roads are just ONE of many issues we face.

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: canhle
Replied on: 01/05/2008 10:39:24
Message:

I agree with Jerry that we need to participate to improve the situation. First thing I would look into is how the collected road fee is accounted. For example, how much is collected from the road fee, and how much is spent on road and administrative tasks. And if the amount spent on the works is fair and reasonable.


-----------------------------------------------------------

My resolution for 2008 is to attend and participate in ALL the meetings. I made a start in 2007, but did not make it to all of them. The very least I accomplish by going is entitlement to comment and/or complain with some substance behind me. The history of this whole thing is so shot through with mistakes and misconceptions, that there is no single factor, committee, or person responsible. I have done my share of venting here on Punaweb, but playing the blame game at this point is probably not going to be productive. Coming up with a plan that will work is a lot harder than griping about what didn't.

If all of us here on Punaweb who are concerned show up at the meetings and voice our concerns, I am pretty sure that it will have some impact. I can't think of an easy answer for those who do not yet live here and feel disenfranchised. Doing a massive ballot a la the paving referendum is not practical all the time. Knowing what the board members stand for and voting in those elections might at least produce representatives more in tune with the membership. (These elections have been very low-key, and sometimes nobody runs for one or more of the positions. Apathy sucks. Attending meetings will give us some idea about whether or not we need to re-elect our reps.) Board ballots are mailed to all property owners as far as I know. FWIW, non-resident property owners are not allowed to vote in township or city elections in any jurisdiction where I have ever lived, yet they have to pay their taxes like everybody else. If I were a non-resident, I would make it my business to find out who my rep is and what their ideas are.

Glen calls me the "Railroad Optimist," but I am not always little Jerry sunshine. Fixing HPP's road mess is intimidating, and roads are just ONE of many issues we face.

Cheers,
Jerry
==================================================================

canhle


Reply author: Rob Tucker
Replied on: 01/05/2008 10:43:35
Message:

Apathy and lack of involvement has left the whole Puna District vulnerable to neglect.

I was told recently by a state official that the method of dealing with Puna issues is:

Divide and ignore

For those interested in reversing this trend may I suggest you review the topic:

Can Puna have clout? Friends of Puna's Future

Efforts are underway to chart a different path.

Punaweb moderator


Reply author: mikewj
Replied on: 01/05/2008 11:37:16
Message:

The following is a letter sent to the President of HPP Owner's Association:

Dear Joanne:

I am a property owner in the Park, and currently live in California. I am in process of building a home on one of my lots on 27th. close to Maku'u. When this home is completed it is my intention to live in it full time. I also own a rental on 21st. close to Paradise.

When I bought these properties I understood that the area had an Ag 1 zoning, and it was my expectation that the area would remain rural. However, it was seen fit to push for a massive financial encumbrance based on the premise that all of the roads would be paved. It would seem that this is far from being true, and I along with other owners have become obligated for a portion of a TWELVE MILLION dollar loan! Since I live my financial life on a 'cash and carry' basis, I am less than serene about this forced debt obligation.

There is already discussion amongst Board members as to foreclosing on properties whose owners have failed to keep their road dues current. With this massive amount of debt, and the subsequent debt service, I would expect more foreclosures, less monies received, and a general devaluation of the remaining properties in the Park as a consequence. It might be prudent at this time to re think the whole plan and to forgo drawing on this line of credit. in my view it would be more sensible to consider making improvements slowly out of cash flow, or go to the membership for a dues increase to provide more working capital.

Along with other Association members, I have become concerned that there seems to be no clear plan as to how the road paving funds are to be allocated.

Could you please tell me when the work will start, where it will be done, what will be the scope of the work and when is completion anticipated?

It is my understanding that a committee was formed to oversee this process. I have also heard that there has been a reshuffle of the committee members. Would you please let me know who is currently heading up the committee?

Another concern is the lack of timely publication of the minutes of meetings; at this writing the most current minutes online are for the October 17 2007 meeting. When do you expect minutes for the remainder of 2007 to be available?

Thank you for your attention. A copy of this letter has been posted on Punatalk.


Reply author: Rob Tucker
Replied on: 01/05/2008 11:57:52
Message:

I don't live in HPP. I know that $12 million sounds like a massive amount of money. I understand that there are approx. 8,800 private lots in HPP. If those figures are correct and all lots are apportioned equally the average bill per property would be $1,364.00.

I have an estimate of over $5,000 to pave my driveway in Pahoa- about 75" long. The $1,364.00 amount for HPP (per lot) doesn't sound terribly scary except it may sound quite low.


Reply author: Seeb
Replied on: 01/05/2008 13:38:17
Message:

Except when your paying to pave someone else's driveway


Reply author: Rob Tucker
Replied on: 01/05/2008 13:41:38
Message:

That is why the price seems quite low.


Reply author: gtill
Replied on: 01/07/2008 05:15:37
Message:

Outside question not imput. Are your regular maintenance people paid any salary (not the volunteer ones). This sounds like a worst case govt operation. Would sure need somthing signed and sealed, with performance bonds. If not going to pay, state why in advance and document in advance for later, if the operation shines you can recant and pay up.
i'm interested, as royal hawaiian could face somthing like this o a maller scale and less densly populated.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/07/2008 09:42:42
Message:

Rob we're not getting our driveways paved.

And apparently not all our roads as foretold.

They, HPPOA, has put put in print their budget. Once or twice, I have some on file. Where it clearly shows that they only spend half of the collected million dollar, road fees" on the roads. The other half is for their "administration and bureaucracy' that's growing faster than the improvements on the roads. They don't even grade the roads often enough to keep them drivable, how are they going to maintain paved roads? Like lower Paradise Dr.? 20 to 14th has people driving off the road into the mud, GO SEE. It's insane.

They aren't even cutting the view access @ 18th and Paradise it's deadly, dark and narrow and it's on the "Main" road of the NAMESAKE of the Park!

You would THINK we'd have at least 1!, ONE road that was start to finish that was a clear thoroughfare of safety. As it is there are people running up and down the road, and this weekend a bicycle group was using it as a bike trail.

I have driven down the hill and had GO-Carts JET across the road...NO stop or eve slow down. All the time quad runners use the main roads to get around the neighborhoods with 2 and 3 kids on them. One lady a know , her son ejected from one atv hit his head on a rock wall..
..DEAD at 21.

If you don't live here, YOU aren't driving on the roads, HELLO?. "Taxation without representation" yea for residents. If I own land in the South of France do you think they'll let me vote for their President?

Sorry to bust your bubble but adding that you posted a copy of the letter on the Punaweb may just get it tossed in the round filing cabinet in the corner of the room.

Susan has already said, "F..K (Them) and the Punaweb". If you get a response it would be hilarious to read what they'll come up with.

I'm making a commitment in 2008 to be less involved with the stress and deadendness of the road situation in HPP because it's a waste of time. If I haven't learned that living in here for 9 years, I've learned anything.

We need to be rid of HPPOA because it's a facade, inept and dishonest.
PERIOD.


P.S.
But Cidi and Jake at the Hilton Saturday night, "Was a night to Remember". Helped me forget about all the Puna poo poo. Saddleback?
Holy Cow! One freeway they're building up there! Who's that for us? or the military on the strike brigade/super ferry?


Reply author: mikewj
Replied on: 01/07/2008 11:41:05
Message:

Here's the response I received from the Pres of HPPOA, followed by my reply to her response:

Dear Mr. Johnson,

Thank you for taking the time to express your concerns.

Foreclosures were undertaken by the Board two years before the bond monies were obtained. The first round of foreclosures was against lots owing more than $2,500, meaning that the owners had never paid any of the assessments since assessments were first imposed in the 1970's. The second and third round of foreclosures have been undertaken against lots owing more than $2,000, meaning that the owners have not paid assessments since the late 1980's. In as much as all delinquent lots owners are obligated to pay all costs associated with a foreclosure action, there ultimately is not cost to the Association. One further note, the bonds are not general obligation bonds, therefore collection of the obligation by foreclosure can only be taken against those lot owners in arrears.


The Road Paving committee was reformed in August following the beginning of the new term and the departure of two directors who served on the committee previously. The committee has been meeting regularly and is nearing completion of the Association's paving plan. I anticipate the committee will make a presentation to the Board at the January Board meeting. Committee members are: Frank Annin, Robert Rainie, Dale Watson and Dennis Higgins, Chair.

Meeting minutes are published on the website after they have been approved. The October minutes are the most current approved minutes. At the December meeting, approval of the November meeting minutes was deferred to the next regular Board meeting. I anticipate the November and December minutes will be posted online within a reasonable time period following the January 16, Board meeting.

I am copying all of the directors in my response, so that the entire Board may have the benefit of your email. Again, thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention.

My reply to the above:

Dear Joanne:

Thank you for your prompt response, and for communicating my concerns to the other Board members. At least I now have some kind of a time frame for expecting answers to my questions regarding the paving project.

I am somewhat confused by your response regarding publication of the minutes of meetings. I am of course open to correction, but the only reference I can find in the Bylaws regarding minutes is in Article IX 4a, describing the duties of the Secretary. It says in part "The Secretary shall review and countersign the minutes taken by the independent recording secretary prior to distributing the minutes to the other directors". I see no mention of any requirement that the minutes be approved by the Board as a body. Since the minutes of the November meeting were available at the December meeting, and presumably given to the other Board members, does it not follow that they then should have been made available to the general membership? And, of course, the most effective way to make the minutes available would be to publish them on the website.

Also, would you be so kind as to tell me who the 'independent recording secretary' is? Also where the audio tapes are stored?

I look forward to hearing from you soon,


Reply author: Rob Tucker
Replied on: 01/07/2008 12:24:33
Message:

Pohaku,

You keep saying something about "Susan" at the HPPOA office saying F**K Punaweb.

I just came from the HPPOA office where I asked for Susan to inquire about such rumored bad feelings. Here's what I was told....

Susan hasn't worked there for six years. They have heard of Punaweb (sort of) but aren't familiar with the site.

Six years ago there was no Punaweb (I know this to be a true fact).

So I admit to being a bit puzzled at your repeated statements. The evidence I have is you are making up stuff. I have to re-evaluate all your statements, and your credibility in general, in that light.

Punaweb moderator


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/07/2008 12:54:07
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker

Pohaku,

You keep saying something about "Susan" at the HPPOA office saying F**K Punaweb.

I just came from the HPPOA office where I asked for Susan to inquire about such rumored bad feelings. Here's what I was told....

Susan hasn't worked there for six years. They have heard of Punaweb (sort of) but aren't familiar with the site.

Six years ago there was no Punaweb (I know this to be a true fact).

So I admit to being a bit puzzled at your repeated statements. The evidence I have is you are making up stuff. I have to re-evaluate all your statements, and your credibility in general, in that light.

Punaweb moderator




Rob,

CREDIBILITY! Are you insinuating I'm I'm lying????

HELLO? Anyone on this website, or anywhere in the world can call 808-966-4500 the HPPOA office and ask who is the Manager, Susan Mayhew is the answer you'll get.

Where you went and who you talked to I have no idea, but you should recheck your facts. Too bad you wasted gas.

And for you as a moderator to make that statement says more of you than I.


Reply author: Damon
Replied on: 01/07/2008 13:02:02
Message:

I had to look into this just a bit further...

I was reading the Minutes from the June 30, 2002 HPPOA General Meeting and found this statement:

Road Advisory - Chair Lundquist explained that the committee is looking to find a way to pave all the roads. Next month Beach Road from Kaloli to Paradise, and 28th Street from Shower to Paradise Drive will be paved. If we get a loan, we plan to pave the fire roads first, 28th, 21st, 16th, 8th and Beach. Then finish the main roads, then the roads that cost the most to be maintained. A suggestion was made from the membership that after the priority roads are paved, if there is not enough funding to pave all the roads, to select roads by lottery.

Paving the roads won't raise road maintenance fees. No decision has been made about putting in 4-way stop signs.


AND THEN I looked at the minutes from a Year after that and found this report which basically states the project was not funded.

Road Maintenance - Because of the Receivership of the past few years, we began this year $300,000 short. We have cut back on road maintenance and stopped buying material, in order to have more money for paving. We were able to pave three miles of lateral roads for $248,000, and we chose roads that had the highest maintenance, 28th Street, and Beach Road. One member asked that with the paving of roads, we keep a rural character to them.

In order to stop the high maintenance at the intersections of the side roads, the policy now is to pave the aprons off the main roads.

President Payne wrote to our State Representatives asking for a Federal loan at 3% interest in order to pave all of our roads.

In the survey that was mailed previously, paving was a priority, however, an increase for paving was rejected. We will be sending out another survey.

Some members were not in favor of paving, they believe it will increase speeding on the roads. Larry Pirtle of Neighborhood Watch advised that if you observe someone speeding, take down the license number, day, time, location, and notify the police. We need to watch our community, the police do not have the manpower.


There are a few other "Gems" to be read in the General Meeting Motions that backdate to August of 1996.

-----------------
Coming home soon!


Reply author: mikewj
Replied on: 01/07/2008 13:12:03
Message:

Maybe the confusion re 'Susan' is because the Manager's name is Suzanne Mayhew. There may well have been a Susan employed at HPPOA in the past, so both parties could be right. Here's a clip from the most recent published minutes, for Oct. '07, showing persons present at the meeting:

Hawaiian Paradise Park Owners Association
Approved Minutes of the Board of Directors Meeting
October 17, 2007



Call to Order: The meeting was called to order at 6:00 p.m. by Frank Annin, Vice President.

Members Present: Frank Annin, Vice President; Vivienne Houghton, Secretary; Ron Phillips, Treasurer; Dennis Higgins, Bob Rainie, Joan Galante, Dale Watson and Robin Wright. Suzanne Mayhew, General Manager, was also present.

Guests: Allan Deehr, Jeff Spaur, Barbara Kahn-Langer, Jim Lee and Bryan Christ.


Reply author: Rob Tucker
Replied on: 01/07/2008 13:20:36
Message:

Pohaku,

I'm not sure what I'm implying. I'm trying to find out the source of bad feelings from the HPPOA office toward Punaweb which you report and seem to like to repeat.

So far I am only sure that Punaweb did not exist six yeras ago. I am going on what I am told.

You may, of course, think what you like. I wonder about your need to repeat what may, or may not, be a situation where Susan at HPPOA is at odds with this web site. I don't know her and have no history there. You are the only source of this information.

I have contacted the office, as you suggested and am now told there is a Susanne - not in today. So your credibility is improving. There's a point at which "Susan" at HPPOA may or may not confirm this rumor/fact. It is possible and likely that facts are getting crossed up. I would like to find out.

If I find that you are correct and what I have been told is wrong I will apologize and remove these confrontational posts. I am trying to get to the root of your statement and separate rumor from fact.

Be annoyed with me if you will. This is all something you have brought forward on more than one occassion. I am trying to resolve it. It may be I will thank you for bringing the situation to my attention.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/07/2008 13:43:49
Message:

There it is Susan, Suzanne, Susie or Sue it's still Mayhew and it's her second time around.

Thank You, Mikewj

and gee Rob you really think someone is going to confront you face to face of a subject like that?


Reply author: james weatherford
Replied on: 01/07/2008 15:27:03
Message:

The paving is going to save a good bit of maintenance costs -- the cost of upkeep of the red cinder roads is quite high.

As for buying 'agricultural lots':
Full disclosure:
+Most of my professional career for >25yrs has been in agriculture.
+We have an acre of fully planted fruit crops on 6th in HPP -- other than orchid houses, our lot has more 'agriculture' than any other I've seen in HPP.

OK?
An 'agriculture' lot in HPP is an illusion.
State land use maps and County zoning notwithstanding, 'agriculture' is not, by and large, what HPP is about. HPP is a low density residential area... 'rural village'? Maps clearly show the 20acre parcels set aside for village center commercial, light industrial, recreation, and education.

Four lane highway? NO WAY!
Two lane highway? NO WAY!
Two lane low-speed, paved streets with 'speed dips' (not bumps, humps, or jumps) within HPP? Yes, probably.
Two-lane restricted access parkway, plus one-lane busway, Hawaiian Beaches-HPP, and HPP-Macadamia Rd? Yes, probably a very workable solution.


So many people bash HPPOA, without any credible evidence.
Try do better!
More participation is definitely better for everyone!!!!!


James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/07/2008 19:45:15
Message:

My Dear Dr. Weatherford,
you are aware of the Orchid lots on 15th? Newman's Nursery, between 14th and 15th? 6-7-8? acres side by side? Pin to pin tents? I know of several orchards that cover lots with small "farm", dwellings on them. I know of a few with mac nut orchards as well. And the acre(s) that I work ARE Agricultural.

All the "talk" I've herd at the HPPOA board meetings, and that meeting you attend in Keaau planning puna for those who have know idea what's going on. Not to mention Co. Counsel meetings and other "puna planning gatherings" under tents etc....oh PMAR, makes me all so ill.

We were sold a bill of goods that isn't as it was represented or originally intended. I wonder were you here in the park 35 years ago at the Hui when it was a bunch black plastic over a wooden frame, pre-bungie cords and tarps? And the road maintenance equipment was parked on the side of the office? (see HPPOA website and look at HPP photos, album HPP in 1979. The man who took those pictures, lived in one of the first 3 houses built on beach rd. as seen in the pictures. He worked for Skunkworks in San Diego. His wife was a RE agent in the Park then. And his grandson lives on 18th one of the worst roads in the park. Maintained? ha ha ha that'd be funny IF, it wasn't so sad and DANGEROUS.

The grass is 7ft high on that corner and you have to pull in to Paradise Dr. to see if someone's coming. If those people in HPPOA respond to you tell them that's a death waiting to happen.

I haven't seen their equipment move much at all lately. My road sucks, cutting across 26th today from Shower to Kaloli sucks, Pretty much it looks like they aren't fixing any roads that I can see anywhere. When ever I call and ask when? "Oh they're up on 2? working their way down." "Or they're down on 7th working their way up, BS BS BS.


And the response to Mike's letter to the Pres? Well if they don't/can't even get the minutes out in a timely fashion what can we expect for the roads. Did she tell us anything about when or what's going to be paved? I didn't read anything remotely like it.

How very nice or polite any of them maybe, what's the result? I know ex-board members who quit, because it's such a mess. And those 20 acre lots set aside for ......and education? Like we'll ever see a school built on one of those while this is a private subdivision. Who's gonna pay for that? Not the D.O.E.

I wish someone else would offer up realities in lieu of the same old, same old we're gonna.......


In my next life time.


Reply author: Aki
Replied on: 01/07/2008 20:42:06
Message:

Looks like we will be hearing more about the paving in HPP after the January Board meeting, based on the following excerpt from the president of the HPPOA (see above):

"The Road Paving committee was reformed in August following the beginning of the new term and the departure of two directors who served on the committee previously. The committee has been meeting regularly and is nearing completion of the Association's paving plan. I anticipate the committee will make a presentation to the Board at the January Board meeting. Committee members are: Frank Annin, Robert Rainie, Dale Watson and Dennis Higgins, Chair."

This is good news. I am confident the Paving Committee (volunteers) are doing their very best to come up with a good plan.

As noted by Rob Tucker the price so far for the paving is less than $1,400 per lot (principal). This is a small investment to make in making the roads safer in HPP. If there is not enough funds in the $12M to pave all the remaining roads, a future board can look at how to best proceed with the balance.

If you are not satisfied with what the Board or the Paving Committee is doing, then run for office or volunteer. Be a part of the solution, not an arm chair critic.

HPP is a fantastic place to live; let's make it even better with paving the roads and participating in making Puna better represented in county affairs (as per Rob's suggestion).

HPP is primarily a place for people to live, not make a living off the land (one acre cannot sustain most people through agriculture). To me that is the reality, even if 50 years ago the developer of HPP may have thought differently. Let's "live and let live" in an "ag land" community where some people are willing to put up and enjoy roosters and other noisy critters in a semi urban setting.

I am looking forward to seeing the paving start in the spring, wherever it may take place based on the recommendations from the Paving Committee.

Thanks, Aki


Reply author: Seeb
Replied on: 01/07/2008 21:50:31
Message:

Rainbows and lollypops


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/07/2008 23:07:20
Message:

Well it certainly is Agricultural to me when I go to a neighbor's house and do Vet work that no Vet on side Puna will do! Doctor up a goat that was gored by another. You have to go to Weimea Assoc. The "traveling doc" won't even come out to see a injured goat.

So as I'm driving across these side roads to and from her house over these UNMAINTAINED roads, to nurse her goat. I think of the responses on this "punaweb" and the appearant Victory of the bedroom community and it reminds me of what happened in Orange County. Orange Groves, into house to house to house. To F....Bad! But not here.

I see the McMansions going in next to old single walled landscaped by hand mini farms. Most friends of my in the park have or had chickens. Goats and cows. Used to get my milk on 10th. Goat milk on 26th. Now the goat needs help. So I'm there.

A neighbor needs help with albizias hanging over his "sub-contracted" cracker-jack box, by the profiteers. Open your eyes. You move from San Diego, San Jose to San Diego in the Pacific? The new OC? The new Maui?
Have to fix our own potholes, too?

There were people who were here before 2003 and the "oh let's move to puna" idea, who built their chicken coops and planted their veggie gardens, orchards, flowers, pakalolo, and now houses. Less of the latter since the war. But they moved out here to be in a RURAL setting. The roads were better, there was NO traffic! WE could walk our dogs from our middle of the road to the end and back and not have one car pass by. So many contractors, burglars, and new residents you can't tell who is who. Except the robbers they can. Was a call this evening to the cops who never showed up, for a burglary call, they be back. Just like fish. We make a net.

There are still a few blocks that don't have bumper to bumper new box houses. I saw one today sided with plywood not T1-11, and laughed. Because the T1-11 has been selling as the finished wall here for years, on these overpriced ill constructed glut of houses we now have. With the albizia seedlings growing in the rain gutters. But that is not nearly as funny as buying a house made with 2x6 trusses that were sitting on the job site in the rain for 6 months getting acclimated?, Finished with thin gauge tin over 2x4 pearlings and Sheetrock. IF that's not going to stop an albizia branch from coming through your roof on a Kona wind storm. I don't know what will.

So for some it's about self-sustenance and we'll be here long after those that don't, because we know how. Not because it getting more trendy to do so, but because it's closer to the culture that was here and not the one you came from.

What do the roads have to do with the change in culture? tree kids on a golf cart zippin down Paradise Dr. hanging a left onto 18th, 2 sitting one standing on the back bumper holding on to the roof. cut left, right in front of a car. With more, bigger, newer, ever growing facade faking, houses take each lot one by one, it's going to be a not a nice place to live anymore pretty soon.

Doesn't matter, but someone had better light up Paradise Dr. someone's going to get run over out there. Not me, we're up with the sun, down with the moon. Rarely drive at night with the drunks.


Reply author: Beachboy
Replied on: 01/08/2008 06:16:02
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker

Pohaku,

You keep saying something about "Susan" at the HPPOA office saying F**K Punaweb.

I just came from the HPPOA office where I asked for Susan to inquire about such rumored bad feelings. Here's what I was told....

Susan hasn't worked there for six years. They have heard of Punaweb (sort of) but aren't familiar with the site.

Six years ago there was no Punaweb (I know this to be a true fact).

So I admit to being a bit puzzled at your repeated statements. The evidence I have is you are making up stuff. I have to re-evaluate all your statements, and your credibility in general, in that light.

Punaweb moderator



Wow brah. You act like someone has attacked your wheelchair bound granny, or worse! I hate to break it to you Rob, but not everyone is gonna love your baby(Punaweb). I'd hope you'd have better things to do with your life then go after every person who says someting negative about Punaweb. I mean who really gives a Rat's arse? You are not gonna believe it, but there are others who don't think to highly of the Punaweb too! You think we should go after them, and perhaps introduce them to "Punaweb Waterboarding"? Rob, we can make that happen, a quick call to a few GOP member in DC....and walla...it's a done deal!

Handle every situation like a dog,If you can't eat it or hump it,piss on it and walk away...


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/08/2008 08:03:44
Message:

anyone else call the HPPOA? Ask them what's up with the road maintenance? where the equipment is , who's road is good? anyone have their's done lately? What's the last one they did grade?


Reply author: mikewj
Replied on: 01/08/2008 09:49:23
Message:

Pohaku:

If you check my posting from yesterday you will find current status of the road work as stated by Joanne, President of the HPPOA. As soon as I get another e mail from her I will post it here.


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/08/2008 11:17:09
Message:

Joanne's response to mikewj tells us to expect news about the paving plan at the January 16 meeting. That will certainly be the major topic or interest at that meeting, but it does not address the current status of repairs to the existing roads or the relationship between funding for paving and ongoing maintenance. I plan to ask about that at the meeting, and hope that others who post here attend as well.

Quoting James Weatherford: "More participation is definitely better for everyone!!!!!"

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/08/2008 12:32:28
Message:

Jerry,
I applaud your interest, even thought you aren't in the park are you? I thought you were in Keaau. But if you can get definitive answers from "them" I won't only be amazed but shocked as well.

I won't wait with baited breath however, I heard it before. From what I can tell there are only a couple dozen the are on this web, counting from the responses to Beachboy's post, WOW I was wondering who's here etc...

But yes in the mean time where is that equipment working? Anyone seen them? I know they fired one operator for smoking pot on the job. Not sure if he was one of the "trainees" they had. Maybe someone might ask them the question what the current status is on their "work crew" is? 1-2? 3? guys responsible for 137 miles of roads?

I think we need lees office workers and more road workers, after all it's what the money is collected for.

Dr. Weatherford, have you been here long enough to remember the Receivership court action and have any idea who the judge was and his ruling?


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/08/2008 12:41:37
Message:

Pohaku, I have lived in HPP for three years and owned property here for five.

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: Damon
Replied on: 01/08/2008 12:47:36
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by pohaku

......have you been here long enough to remember the Receivership court action and have any idea who the judge was and his ruling?



Pohaku -

You can try looking here

This is a fairly long document on HPP Road Maintenance dating back to May 16th, 1994.

I found a few things in there that I would probably grumble about if I was an HPP resident.

-----------------
Coming home soon!


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/08/2008 16:28:02
Message:

Very interesting


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/08/2008 23:23:31
Message:

Let's have a contest for the crappiest road. I vote for 18th between Paradise and Kalloli


Reply author: HiloHaole
Replied on: 01/09/2008 15:21:07
Message:

I noticed --
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
January 11, 2001
(clipped stuff)
Don Tinker moved that the RMC approved the HPPOA Amended and Restated Bylaws as amended by the Court;

to include in Article VI, Section I (a) Lot owners are assumed to be members of the Association unless the Association receives from them a written affirmative statement to the contrary. Owners may join or decline membership at any time. The Association will notify owners of record of their ability to decline membership in the Association.

and in Section 2 - Any amendment to these bylaws requiring mandatory membership dues shall require prior Court approval.
(clipped stuff)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Does anyone know if the Court approved mandatory membership dues?
If not, then HPPOA can't force residents to pay.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/09/2008 17:16:46
Message:

Well it's pretty clear that the HPPOA isn't responding to the posts here. Even after Rob's visit to them on another matter. Would say that was a confirmation that they're not interested in what's being discussed here.

Hilohaole, that's an interesting post. Very nice question.

Maybe someone who has knowledge of those Receivership hearings could shed some light on the matter.

"I was told", coconut wireless, OMG. From someone who was more knowledgeable than I with respects to the recent court action.
That the HPPOA was only allowed to deal with the roads, nothing else.

Well a lot of "things" have fallen under those dictates.
And I know as a fact equipment has walked away from the RMC garage.

A recent vote for a pool? a park? Not with road fees that go up 5% a year thank you. But I heard of one guy deeding his % of the HPP roads back to the HPPOA. I'm gonna look into that because I was told by a previous RMC manager that I wouldn't see pavement on my road in my lifetime.

So what am I pay for?


Reply author: Bob Orts
Replied on: 01/09/2008 18:20:36
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by HiloHaole
Does anyone know if the Court approved mandatory membership dues?
If not, then HPPOA can't force residents to pay.



Membership dues (mandatory or elective) in HPPOA is different from Road Maintenance Assessments. Membership in the “Association” is automatic unless you elect to decline membership and give up your right to participate in or vote on matters of the Association. Giving up that right to participate or pay any voluntary membership dues in the “Association” does not remove your legal obligation and requirement to pay Road Maintenance assessments.


Reply author: Tolleys
Replied on: 01/09/2008 20:40:51
Message:

Quote - "Let's have a contest for the crappiest road. I vote for 18th between Paradise and Kalloli"

I will drive your pick which might change my mind, but until I do I vote for PILIKAI! (off of Beach & Kaloli towards Kaloli Point)

Susan


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/09/2008 21:50:02
Message:

Susan are you talking about the 4x4 road north of Kaloli off beach?

If it's where I think you're talking about, that's Shipman land.

Bob you seem knowledgeable in that your response answered one question.

What do you know about deeding back your % of the roads to the assoc.?


Reply author: HiloHaole
Replied on: 01/10/2008 02:09:22
Message:

A huge portion of the "road maintenance" fee goes to salaries. To get your road paved, you must get on the Board. At least one person who has been on the Board openly stated his purpose.


Reply author: Bob Orts
Replied on: 01/10/2008 10:09:06
Message:

I have no idea if you can deed the property to the HOA. Do you physically own the property used as the street or is it community property? Even if you could deed the physical portion of the street over to another entity, the HI courts said it's the fact you own the physical land abutting the street that makes you liable for road assessments. So even if you could give up actual physical land used as the street, you still owe the assessment.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/10/2008 16:57:14
Message:

Thanks Bob,
We don't physically own the land in front of our property.
We 1/8800%, per acre owned, it their roads. We somehow got duped into a road fee, slipped in there with the whole deal.

But as we're NOT getting what we pay for, logic would dictate we shouldn't HAVE to pay, epically by threat of court. Extortion?

The county won't take over all these roads it would bankrupt the county budget. BUT!, maybe we'd get some Federal help?

But the salaries of the office workers should definitely not come from the road fees.

Those who want to be members of the HPPOA, should pay for their "private club employees" and their improvements to the Hui, and all the little projects the board wishes to spend money on.

Road fee monies should go 100% to the roads.

And Bob, another question? When someone dies on these roads due to their condition, not the fault of a driver. Are we legally all going to be responsible for the multi million dollar suit? Will all our road fees get sucked into the lawyers pockets?

Maybe Jerry can find out when he attends the meeting? No, I'm not going, I've heard enough lies from them and their predecessors.


Reply author: Kelena
Replied on: 01/10/2008 18:01:56
Message:

I second Pilikai, on Kaloli Point. Death....to...rental....cars. On the positive side, Pilikai is the Holy Land...or should I say the Holey Land. If you dodge one hole, you just run into another. Maximum speed....2 MPH. Even though you might lose a transmission and arrive at your destination with a herniated disk.

Pave Pilikai First!


Reply author: Greg
Replied on: 01/10/2008 22:11:20
Message:

I hope your Hui's looking into "Chip seal". It's a lot cheaper then asphalt, easy to maintain, and suitable on flat streches.

Hilly sections need asphalt. (IMHO)


Reply author: Seeb
Replied on: 01/10/2008 22:44:42
Message:

Pohaku Salaries are the biggest expense of any operation and Nothing happens without good office staff, there would be no fees colected, no deeds filed- nothing. Your ragging on the wrong people. the blame for this mess soup to nuts lies with the county


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/11/2008 09:12:55
Message:

Seeb,

The COUNTY has NOTHING to do with HPP as it's a PRIVATE Subdivision.

This is part of the over all gripe. On top of road fees, we pay taxes which some part we assume goes to roads to our house, NOT, they're responsibility stops at the highway.

So we literately relie on 2-4 guys (depending on how many trainees they have) to work all 137 miles of roads. I paid road fees last year and got nothing for it. Did they grade your road last year?

In my opinion the courts need to take it back into receivership, abolish the Hui and have a RMC skeleton staff of one. And employ 5 road crew workers instead of office workers.imo

Or separate the HPPOA form the the RMC and separate the money. That which is collected for roads goes to roads. Those who want to be members of the HPPOA Club should collect their monies from their members. The combining of the two you can see isn't working.

Still none of the dozen hpp residents has said they've seen the equipment working anywhere? WHAT did they stop because "paving is coming"? And the 4-5 roads they now plan to pave is it the worst roads or the ones they want to hook up to the PMAR plan?

PUNA MAKAI ALTERNATE ROAD
..
www.fukubonsai.com/bi6g.html - 30k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this


Reply author: Bob Orts
Replied on: 01/11/2008 16:53:29
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by pohaku
When someone dies on these roads due to their condition, not the fault of a driver. Are we legally all going to be responsible for the multi million dollar suit? Will all our road fees get sucked into the lawyers pockets?



That’s a question that needs to be asked and answered by a competent attorney who knows Hawaii subdivision and liability laws. I would venture to say that the owner of the property (road) might be liable. If the owner is the HPPOA and the HPPOA is the property owners, you can figure out where the money will come from.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/11/2008 17:08:03
Message:

"Competent attorney"? that would be like "adequate medical care" or "police protection". he he

Bob this is puna and those things that might be taken for granted else where? Well.... today we were playing catch a thief. Still there is one advantage of gravel roads , you can hear the cars crawling along at 1-2 miles per hour. Where as if the roads were paved you wouldn't hear them at all.
Good and Bad in everything, even in Puna.


Reply author: mikewj
Replied on: 01/11/2008 17:11:05
Message:

Regarding a possible lawsuit: Most HOA's with which I am familiar carry liability insurance for just such an eventuality. Might want to check with HPPOA to determine if they are insured? In CA, this kind of insurance is required by law. Don't know about Hawaii, as there appears to be very little regulation regarding Homeowner's Associations.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/11/2008 18:22:09
Message:

I'm pretty sure they're insured, lawyered up and and have their ass covered. But that would mean, your trust in that set up, is as good as the trust that when you pay road fees you're going to have your road maintained?


Reply author: Seeb
Replied on: 01/11/2008 21:39:34
Message:

The county's mantra of why they can't accept the roads in HPP " substandard subdivsion " is bs
( i havent done the heavy research on the following so if im wrong on any facts someone let me know were i can find the right info)
1) it meet the standard in place at the time it was subdivied
2) they changed the road standard after they paved another private subdivision ( hawaiian beachs )
3) the 100 ft right a way is so excessive as to be a ( i forget the legal word here somthing like ' orduros burden ' ? ) compared to the rest of the exsisting county roads


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/11/2008 23:32:20
Message:

I'll have to look up the last budget, and post it.


Reply author: macuu222
Replied on: 01/13/2008 06:39:48
Message:

HPPOA just posted their January Conch newsletter.

http://hawaiianparadisepark.org/Jan08Conch.pdf


Here is the list of graded roads From July through November:


Roads graded and rolled: 1st Maku’u to
Kaloli dead end. 2nd Paradise to Kaloli, 9th
Maku’u dead end, 10th Paradise to Kaloli
dead end, 11th Maku’u dead end to Kaloli,
12th Maku’u dead end to Kaloli dead end,
13th Maku’u dead end to Kaloli dead end,
14th Maku’u dead end to Kaloli dead end,
15th Maku’u dead end and Maku’u to
Kaloli, 16th Maku’u dead end to Kaloli
dead end, 17th Maku’u dead end, 19th
Maku’u dead end and Kaloli to dead end,
Railroad Paradise to Kaloli, 20th Kaloli
dead end, 22nd Paradise to Kaloli, 23rd
Maku’u to Kaloli, 29th Maku’u dead end,
25th Maku’u dead end, and Paradise to
Kaloli, 26th Paradise to Kaloli, 28th Maku’u
dead end, 29 Paradise to Kaloli, 30th
Paradise to Kaloli, 33rd Maku’u dead end.








Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/13/2008 07:15:14
Message:

THAT'S B.S.!

just because they print it doesn't make it so.

They're record keeping is as good as their road work! Full of holes.

Or is this the line up for next year?

Why did they skip 5th and 18th two of the worst????

My friends on those street/pot holed roads paid their fees??????

Same old , same old B.S., they need to be abolished.


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/13/2008 08:06:35
Message:

Several of the roads listed were not graded and rolled. More to gripe about at the meeting. We live on Railroad, and the grader drove through one day in late summer without lowering his blade or moving the first bit of dirt. Does that count? The pot holes are like the craters of the moon. We have owned this house for five years and it's the worst it's ever been.

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/13/2008 10:06:42
Message:

As I've said before lies and promises is all we get for our road fees.

I'm sick of it and I think we need to start court action.


Reply author: Greg
Replied on: 01/13/2008 17:32:47
Message:

Please don't think I'm being a smart ass, but why don't you guys that are pissed off (and akami) serve on the board and road maintenance commitee?

I asked before and got no response, so here it is again;

Are the Board and commitee positions won in a contested election, or are they pretty much voluntary with the election confirming?

Either way, it sounds like you guys could use some fresh direction.

good luck.


Reply author: pohaku
Replied on: 01/13/2008 19:22:32
Message:

Greg,
no to sound too abrasive but a "friend's" goat died because of her incompetence. Newbie's trying to do the farm thing and whimping out really pisses me off, but the list of roads supposedly graded last year is pure crap.

Why did they skip 5th and 18th? Anyone drive 18th yet? My pick for the worst one in the park?

Anyway the board members are voted for. The majority of the population is fed up with the whole Hui and RMC as a whole because of their incompetence and lack of ability to maintain the roads.

The RMC are paid employees, probably w/benefits etc. Salary? It's in the budget that's printed out.

I ran one year for a board member slot in my district but they prefer like minded retirees that won't rock the boat.

I have friends who served and quit because of their, "the boards", inability to even get a quorum. As seen by the info, previously posted on this thread by, you? I forgot.

But the old records show there were a couple times where 3-4 months in a row there weren't enough members to have a quorum.

The whole thing is pathetic. There are a dozen people on this website who actually live here now. Out of almost 10k people? It's a joke and NOT a very funny one at that.

Haven't heard back from the attitude mentioned by the manager in regards to Punaweb, and Rob's inquiry.

No one from the board or the Hui or the RMC seem to respond to anything posted here, and I'm sure by the coconut wireless they've heard or are reading it. For fear of attack like the Blue Hawaiian
guy. Seems it was too much heat for him.

So I don't know if you own land here or are planning to move here, but be aware it is just one of the unspoken uglinesses that exist here.
Not the top of the list by any means.

Had a new neighbor just email me tonight to tell me someone is shooting at her cat and her dog is acting funny/sick?

The VERY worst is the jerks with BOOM, BOOM, BUZZZZ, BOOM BOOM boxes cruzing really slow down the roads because they're lowered 3 inches off the ground. Another reason I want my road paved so they'll past by faster.

Ok , breathe............

did I answer your question?


Reply author: Greg
Replied on: 01/13/2008 20:31:32
Message:

"Anyway the board members are voted for. The majority of the population is fed up with the whole Hui and RMC as a whole because of their incompetence and lack of ability to maintain the roads."

Thanks, that answers my question.

Another query; If the majority of the population is fed up with the board, why aren't more effective people elected?

You should run again if you feel strongly, and have real solutions.


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/13/2008 21:50:48
Message:

Didn't somebody once describe the County's method of dealing with Puna as "divide and ignore?" If we keep arguing about who's been here longer, who better knows the veracity of the HPP road boss, or who lives in what subdivision or community, we are doing the good old boys' job for them. I post here under my real name, vote, and go to more community meetings than I used to. I am trying to do what I can to influence what is going on by asking questions and expressing my opinion at those meetings. And yes, sometimes I vent and whine on Punaweb. Maybe one day I will run for the HPP Board, but not just yet. Meanwhile I do what I can and try not to attack fellow posters personally.

To summarize what a lot of other HPP residents and I have posted (and perhaps refocus on topic):

The paving project does not appear to be what we were we told it would be, and the existing roads are in pretty sorry shape.

And somehow, in spite of everything, I remain cheerfully yours,
Jerry


Reply author: mei
Replied on: 01/13/2008 21:51:44
Message:

I am completely flabbergasted! Who cares who POHAKU is or how long he has lived here! I want to know why the f*** 5th street has not been graded in over 8 months! I don't care if you are from timbuktu-- fix the damn roads, they are killing our vehicles. And who the hell is selecting whih roads are worthy of being maintained regularly? I find it offensive and ignorant to present irrelivent issues about kama-aina's. FIX THE FREAKIN ROADS!


Reply author: Rob Tucker
Replied on: 01/13/2008 22:05:12
Message:

I have come to the conclusion that Pohaku is someone who was recently suspended from this forum and has returned under another name. Sorry for the diversion folks but "Pohaku" is being shut off.

Punaweb moderator


Reply author: Greg
Replied on: 01/13/2008 22:45:41
Message:

I don't live in HPP but feel connected to this thread in the capacity of having served on non-profit boards. The topic seems to have evolved to the incompetence of the board and road maintenance commitee. Here's what I think;

This forum is a good place to vent. The annual meeting is a good place to vent. For some that's as far as it gets.

The simple fact of the matter is the people serving on non profit boards are there month after month (sometimes year after year) doing the best they can.

Why? Because no one else will do it. It's easy to criticize, it takes more work to be part of the solution. I can't believe the HPP board members wouldn't welcome all the help they can get. I can't believe the majority of HPP residents are dissatisfied with the status quo and don't do anything about it. Jeez, throw off the yoke of oppression.

Run, vote, meet and work every month. Set budgets, get supplies, pay bills, send newsletters, compile member databases, gather bids, survey roads, take minutes, publish minutes, make reports, maintain equipment, pay employees...............................

or; Piss and moan, have another coolie, and let someone else do it.


Reply author: macuu222
Replied on: 01/14/2008 07:25:10
Message:

HPPOA Board of Directors meeting this Wednesday 1/16 at 6pm. Any HPP owner can go to the meeting and give input.

---------------------------------------------------------

AGENDA
I. Call to Order
II. Roll Call
III. Approval of the Agenda
IV. Owner Input
V. Minutes from the November 21, 2007 and December 19, 2007 Board of Directors’
Meetings
VI. Treasurer’s Report
VII. General Manager’s Report
VIII. Committee Reports
A. Paving Committee Report
B. Roads Traffic, Safety & Policies Committee Report
IX. Unfinished Business
A. Motions Log
B. General Manager’s Position Description
C. Member Meeting Owners’ Input
X. New Business
A. Roads Traffic, Safety & Policies Recommendations
B. Agenda for February Member Meeting
C. Other
XI. Announcements
A. Next Board of Directors’ Meeting is February 20, 2008 at 6:00 pm
XII. Adjournment of Board of Directors’ Meeting


Reply author: Dr. Feelgood
Replied on: 01/14/2008 08:10:44
Message:

Anyone in here know how to get the road graded?

Or is this just all talk?


Reply author: Seeb
Replied on: 01/15/2008 08:03:40
Message:

There some guy standing at the end of Makuu this morning with a sign about the paving project


Reply author: Kapohocat
Replied on: 01/15/2008 11:40:03
Message:

27th is being graded right now as I write per SB.


Reply author: Beachboy
Replied on: 01/16/2008 06:52:36
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker

I have come to the conclusion that Pohaku is someone who was recently suspended from this forum and has returned under another name. Sorry for the diversion folks but "Pohaku" is being shut off.

Punaweb moderator



Rob, I don't care who Pohaku is. But it seems he or she is very passionate about Puna & HPP in general, so what is the problem? What I'm hearing from Pohaku's mouth is that he or she is tired of the Status Quo pissing on our(HPP residents) collective backs, and then telling us it's a 'Trade Shower'. What's your beef with Pohaku anyway? Why do you have so much concern about HPP and this thread, you don't live here in da park,right?
Besides Rob, diversity is a good thing when it comes to people like this Pohaku character who seems passionate about HPP. All he or she is trying to do is make HPP residents aware of the BS coming from the HPP Hui Office. I find no fault in that? A lot of residents here in HPP are new to the ways things are done around here in rural Hawaii.

So, Pohaku is somebody you banned from here? Again this Pohaku is so passionate about Puna & HPP, he came back on under a different name!?
I thought you yourself said that Message Boards was a place people voice their views. So are you saying that's okay as long as those views are shared by you, and if not you give'em da hook? I think there was and old Savoy Brown song that said"wouldn't life be a drag if we were all the same?

In closing, whoever Pohaku is, you should give that person a break. It's good to have a thorn in our collective arses,from time to time. He or she serves as a good wake up call!

Handle every situation like a dog,If you can't eat it or hump it,piss on it and walk away...


Reply author: Rob Tucker
Replied on: 01/16/2008 07:50:46
Message:

macuu222 posted on another topic. This is good info for here too.

Posted - 01/16/2008 : 07:28:47

BTW.... There is a HPP board meeting tonight at 6:00pm. For those of us that want answers about paving and grading issues....Thats the place to be.

Punaweb moderator


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/16/2008 09:53:34
Message:

I'll be there. I'm the guy in the burnt orange Texas Longhorns cap.

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/16/2008 21:44:19
Message:

Well, I just got back from the HPP Board meeting. At least one other Punawebber (Daniel, nice to meet you) was there . . . along with a lot of angry people. Members got three minutes each to speak at the beginning of the meeting. Several decried the poor state of the roads, one (the guy waving the sign the other day) complained about how many of the first roads scheduled to be paved happen to have board members living on them, one didn't want any paving at all, one expressed concern about the interest differential on the bond issue, and a few spoke on topics unrelated to roads. I used my three minutes to point out that the membership was led to believe that ALL the roads were going to be paved, but that is not what is happening. No one on the board chose to answer that, although they did address some other members' comments later in the meeting.

Unfortunately the member's comments were only allowed at the beginning of the meeting and not when the particular topics were being discussed by the board. Thus interactive debate was minimal, except among the board members. The Paving Committee report by Mr. Higgins was instructive, though. He states that the original estimate for cost was under by about a factor of two due to the fact that it called for pouring asphalt over cinders without deep base work. Instead of $100,000 per mile, it will cost as much as double that to do it right. This would allow for the $12 million bond issue to pave about 45 miles of side roads plus improvements for the main roads down to the shore and intersection improvements. The first roads to be paved will be 22nd (gives fire department access from Makuu to Shower,) 16th (passes by the maintenance baseyard,) 7th, 1st, and part of K. The first phase will consist of these roads for a total of 10 miles. The improvements to the main roads and intersections as well as paving of additional cross roads will come in later phases. A motion passed to hire an outside contractor/supervisor and to get a legal review of the bidding and supervision process. I got the impression that they will be seeking bids soon.

There is a general membership meeting which allows a more open format for member participation on February 20 at 6pm. I plan to be there.

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: Daniel
Replied on: 01/16/2008 22:53:20
Message:

Aloha all,

Like Jerry said I was there and able to meet him. Jerry, I liked what you had to say, I was very impressed. The people that first told me about punaweb were also there, as well as several past customers of mine, so I felt comfortable there. There was a lot of bickering at first and some people that were obviously uninformed, but as the meeting went on there were some more positive comments made and I was able to learn a few things about what is going on.
What I got out of the meeting:
-A new very nice lawnmower tractor like the ones the state uses to mow the roadsides has been purchased and will soon be in use to tame the HPP roadside jungle. It will have a full time operator. I think this was a good move and will be a good investment for us.
-The roads will be paved in phases beggining with the fore-metioned roads and will posibly cost 25 million dollars to finish.
-there is HPP money in an account in the eastern united states earning 4.55%.
-There are a lot of people who seem to have solutions about this "problem", some of which I didn't even understand...and even more people who don't have a clue about what is going on.

I don't feel too bad about our situation, I think things will soon get better.

Thanks for reading,



Daniel R Diamond


Reply author: Seeb
Replied on: 01/22/2008 12:27:49
Message:

as far as businesses look at the zoning in the Puna Community Devolepment Plan

The devil is in the detail


Reply author: Daniel
Replied on: 01/22/2008 17:07:22
Message:

Paved roads will help keep dust off of flowers. Other than that I dont see much benefit to business. The UPS will have a better roads and might be able to get around easier.

Daniel R Diamond


Reply author: John S. Rabi
Replied on: 01/22/2008 17:20:39
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Buzz

This is a question for the realtors. Do you think that given the added traffic the hpp proposed paved roads will generate will benefit homebase businesses. I'm thinking ag concerns like plant nurseries or any other type of small business where ease of access and road exposure might enhance sales.



I personally don't think the repaving will do much good except better driving conditions. I think the HOA would serve the members much better by getting light CC&Rs approved for the subdivision.

Aloha,
John S. Rabi, ABR,CM,CRB,FHS,RB
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"


Reply author: Kelena
Replied on: 01/22/2008 18:12:06
Message:

Thank you Jerry and Daniel for going to the meeting, for those of us who could not. I found it interesting that the most important question remained unanswered: Is the Association preceding with a plan that he membership did not vote for? Did they interpret the vote as license to build as many roads as they possibly could for a given amount of money?

This appears to be millions for absolutely nothing. I agree with Rabi, that what should happen in HPP is the development of light CCR's. It is apparent to me that HPP is too large and too diverse to be manageable. It should be divided into smaller subdivisions and associations.

Of course, what should happen and what are actually feasible are two different things.

However, I am beginning to wonder if the road plan shouldn't be challenged.


Reply author: JerryCarr
Replied on: 01/22/2008 20:06:48
Message:

Glen, the format of the meeting did not really allow for give and take debate and discussion. They allowed all the owners who wished to speak three minutes at the beginning of the meeting to make statements. The road paving item was moved down the agenda to near the end, and when it came up, no discussion was allowed. (Quite a few people did not even stay until it came up.) We just got to hear Mr. Higgins' report on the plan being moved forward and some board discussion of nuts and bolts type things. I mentioned in my statement that what we are getting is not what many of us believe was actually proposed. No one on the Board chose to address or rebut this concern.

Buzz, I also mentioned the "funneling" effect of having four of the cross-subdivision roads paved. I even said I was glad I wasn't on one of the roads chosen because I expect a lot of heavy traffic on them at greater speeds than are now common. Again, no one on the Board chose to address or rebut this.

The February meeting will be a "General Membership Meeting," and should allow for more give and take discussion. I plan to be there, and urge anyone with an interest in this or any other community issues to be there and participate. Of course, off-island property owners (Glen, I wish you articulate self could be there) are at a big disadvantage, but this is the only venue we have to influence the process.

Cheers,
Jerry


Reply author: Greg
Replied on: 01/22/2008 21:07:59
Message:

Does the "General membership meeting" in February include the election of board members?

If members are not happy with their representation, this would be the time to act.


Reply author: Daniel
Replied on: 01/22/2008 22:52:36
Message:

I dont think the traffic will be much worse than it is now. For example I wouldnt drive all the way from 5th to 16th to go back down to 7th. Besides those 4 roads are only the beggining, others will follow. After attending the meeting last week I dont feel like there is much of a problem here concerning paving , just a little lack of communication on the part of the assco. and lack of involvement from the members, myself included. I think there is room to improve in road maintenence, sign repair, and road-related tree removal. No CC&Rs except noise and saftey related issues (i.e. albizia tree dangers) I dont want someone telling me how to live or what to do with my land or house.

Daniel R Diamond


Reply author: mei
Replied on: 01/23/2008 20:29:41
Message:

HPP road s!@#@
Daniel went to the HPP board meeting- got some promises, some lies, and some excuses. That's about all we get for our road fees.. And that for over 14 years in HPP? Hmm... Should I be extending a word of gratitude? Or should I be wondering where all that money is being allocated? Enough with the in the future paving particular roads- my car is about to have some realexpensive issues because there is a serious bathtub size pothole on the corner of 5th and paradise. "Hello? Is anybody out there? Just nod if you can hear me.." My cars about to die and you want more money to????????????? Got the bill yesterday. Hard to pay for something that plainly just does not happen. Grade 5th street and I'll be more than happy to send more $$$$$$$.


Reply author: Punamom
Replied on: 01/23/2008 20:58:46
Message:

Every time I've gone to the hui and asked for my road to be graded/filled it was done within 2 weeks.
The last time it was fixed was a few months ago, right before the rains (which of course washed all the work away in a couple of days).
The road has been terrible for months now and I am very glad the road crew has the sense not to waste our money to fix it when its just gonna get washed away.
I went in last week (seeing as though the rains have kinda slowed) and they already had my road on their list to be fixed after they get to a few others.
So thank you hpp road crew!

Anybody who thinks 12 mil is gonna pave all our roads in hpp is just out of touch with reality. Try looking into the "little bit of paving" fiasco of Paradise drive. That will give you an indication of how far the money goes. I'd say we'd be lucky to get all the streets they have earmarked paved.


Reply author: mei
Replied on: 01/23/2008 22:40:04
Message:

Realizing that 12 million will not pave our roads- What about the grating- Uh don't you thing they should respond when more than 3 people have given the hint about a particular problem EX: the ditch at the end of 5th and Paradise? OK Punamom, whom seems all satisfied with the timely and efficient response you've gotten from the HUI road crew people, and the delegation of our funds..How many times have you payed for a re-alignment of your tires or a bent radials? How many times have you had to replace your shocks, struts, realign your tires? I'll tell you, I am a conscientiuos driver, and I pay more in car repair than I believe I should have to with the proper care given to our roads.
Mei


Reply author: Greg
Replied on: 01/24/2008 06:55:25
Message:

It sounds like HPP could use some competant volunteers and planners. Would you (mei) or Pohaku consider running for the board of directors?


Reply author: oink
Replied on: 01/24/2008 07:15:11
Message:

I'm not minimalizing the issue of poorly maintained unpaved roads, but I don't consider the worst HPP roads I've experienced as all that bad. I've lived on much worse. You adjust driving speed accordingly. As I just received my increased bill for my two lots, I would like to see the money wisely spent. I reluctantly voted for the paving, as paved is nice, but I would have been happy with the roads remaining as grades. I'm not thrilled by the prospect of having an increased bill just to pave someone elses road. I wouldn't object to having the project canceled. I would like to see some HPP park development and possibly have a police substation built to entice more police presence. Maybe supply them with a small office with printer, phone, internet and a computer with their report forms installed, if possible.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.


Reply author: mei
Replied on: 01/25/2008 00:44:18
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by oink

I'm not minimalizing the issue of poorly maintained unpaved roads, but I don't consider the worst HPP roads I've experienced as all that bad. I've lived on much worse. You adjust driving speed accordingly. As I just received my increased bill for my two lots, I would like to see the money wisely spent. I reluctantly voted for the paving, as paved is nice, but I would have been happy with the roads remaining as grades. I'm not thrilled by the prospect of having an increased bill just to pave someone elses road. I wouldn't object to having the project canceled. I would like to see some HPP park development and possibly have a police substation built to entice more police presence. Maybe supply them with a small office with printer, phone, internet and a computer with their report forms installed, if possible.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

I agree that Hpp raods are not the worst experience ever but, really,our road fees should secure a little more drivability, As far as adjusting my speed, uh.. 2 miles an hour enough? It seems that you own to lots but are not having the experience of bumping slowly down them 4-5 times per day to get the kids to school or go to work or whatever. Please do not be offended but, living it and thinking about are two entirely different experiences.


Reply author: oink
Replied on: 01/25/2008 04:17:16
Message:

OH, believe me, I've lived it. Ours used to become impassible without 4X4 and was over a mile long.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.


Reply author: goody
Replied on: 01/27/2008 13:34:30
Message:

Ours are a mile long and they suck so bad and we are billed for it.

Two guys went to the meeting got some promises/lies and excuses.


Reply author: james weatherford
Replied on: 01/27/2008 14:09:30
Message:


We stay HPP 6th.

1) The people complaining, here or elsewhere, must take action rather complain. Put up or shut up.
2) Guaranteed: you run for director in our district with some reasonable solutions in mind and you get 2 votes (one for each lot).
3) Do any of the complainers, or anyone else here, know what the annual road maintenance costs are? And, how that compares to the planned paving?
4) My words are only in defense of rational discussion based on facts rather than the rant this topic has otherwise generated.



James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park


Reply author: oink
Replied on: 01/27/2008 15:20:05
Message:

Hmm, I didn't think I was ranting. I was saying that I don't have a strong preference, paved or unpaved. If the paving costs are going to be way over what was anticipated, I would prefer unpaved. My unpopular opinion was that, compared to what I've experienced, the roads aren't that bad for grade roads. Yes there will be some dust, but try living on a road that has shellrock on it. It's all a matter of perspective. And when I finally get there, you can bet I will be involved and even run for the board if the current member isn't doing a good job and no one else will take it on.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.


Reply author: Greg
Replied on: 01/27/2008 17:00:05
Message:

I asked previously, but got no response.

Is HPP looking into "Chip seal" surfacing. A good example is Kapoho Kai (the road to Vacationland). It's a quarter of the cost of asphalt (four times the area per buck), easy to maintain without special equipment, and effectivly elliminates dust from the roads.

The only drawback is that chip sealing doesn't work so well on steep hills ( so pave them).

I agree with James that there has been a lot of ranting on this thread, but don't think he was singling out maku'u, who actually had a suggestion.

I once again state that I don't live in your subdivision, but maintain a vested interest in the situation.

That is to say I'm developing a new "sit-com" for submission to Comedy Central. Think of a kind of "Petticoat Juntion" meets "lost" meets "Cribs".

Anti-flaming disclaimer: The previous paragraph is an attempt at humor, and doesn't neccessarily reflect the opinion of a sane individual.


Reply author: Beachboy
Replied on: 01/27/2008 17:32:47
Message:

perhaps if they are gonna keep dragging their feet with regards to paving HPP. You'd think they'd at least give each Household in HPP a pair of "kidney belts",until the paving starts.

Speaking of Albezia Trees! What, the HUI is gonna wait until these trees on Paradise Ave. fall on the powerlines before they doing anything? These "****ers" should be doing their jobs a bit better! Why wait for countless pissed off phone calls from HPP residents with no electricity. Deal with it now, before it's a big problem! Albezia Trees are starting to brush up against the power lines now....

Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else.

Will Rogers


Reply author: mei
Replied on: 01/28/2008 02:51:13
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker

I have come to the conclusion that Pohaku is someone who was recently suspended from this forum and has returned under another name. Sorry for the diversion folks but "Pohaku" is being shut off.

Punaweb moderator

Not seeing the relationship between Pohaku's passion and the seeming ambivilence and inequality in the road maintenance activity..I live on 5th and like a broken record, I'll say again this road had not been graded in at least ten months, the potholes are herrendous. Yes, I've adjusted my speed and travel very slowly(2mla/hr max) to avoid injuring the vehicle but have recently hurt by back. Everytime I bump down my relatively short road I am infuriorated when the twinges of pain course through my back neck and eventually migrate to a migraine. And I do contend that living and experiencing life in Puna has alot to do with ones subjectivity to the road maintainance problems. I have lived in this subdivision the majority of my life and part of the reason I bought here was becasue of the seemingly well maintianed roads and I love the area. But, even at super slow speeds I cannot drive myself , my children back and forth to school, appointments, etc.. without feeling the pain- is there someone I can talk to about having our road fixed?


Reply author: Tolleys
Replied on: 01/28/2008 20:38:38
Message:

mei,
We all feel the (your) pain...

Contact
Clyde Wheatley
HPPOA Road Supervisor

hpproads@gmail.com

I contacted him in the summer using the above email which was given to me by the HUI.

We are rentling on Paradise Ala Kai which has not seen a road crew since we moved to the island July 2007... And it was bad then!

Susan


Reply author: Beachboy
Replied on: 01/29/2008 06:10:14
Message:

just got my annual bill the other day. The Hui can pave these Nut Sacks!

The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present.”
Machiavelli


Reply author: Punamom
Replied on: 01/31/2008 16:27:33
Message:

WOW!!!!! That is the most lovely road and work I've ever seen in HPP!!!
THANK YOU,THANK YOU,THANK YOU !!!! HPP Road Crew!!!
Everybody drive slowly PLEASE!

BTW I did take a drive on 5th the other day and the road was not as bad as alot of others I've been on (yes I did see the easy to avoid small pothole off Makuu). Neither was the one to Kaloli Point.


Punatalk : http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/

© 2003 to 2014 Punaweb

Close Window